SPEAKER_01: 0:25

Welcome back to another episode of the Make the Most of Your Money podcast. I'm here again with Colin Page. Colin, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. It was good to see you uh last week. So you better be good. You gotta hang out for three days in Austin, Texas. So it was good. Yes, we were at the uh XYPN live conference for us planning nerds, and it was three exhausting days. I was telling Colin, I haven't drank in eight years, but I felt hung over on Sunday from just talking for 15 hours and minimal water and a lot of coffee. And yeah, you know, can't do it like I can't conference like I used to, Colin. I don't know about you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07

Oh, that makes two of us. Uh yeah, I mean it's amazing. We go to these cool conferences and cool places, and and you know, I think you and I spent maybe a total of like an hour and a half outside the hotel uh when we went to get tacos.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21

I would say you could put these conferences in a cornfield, Iowa, and nobody would know the difference. It's just yeah, you know, why are we in a nice hotel? But it was all it's always good to see and connect with other advisors, hear what's going on, hear what their clients are dealing with. Um today's topic is not so much inspired from the conference. And frankly, it's not the most fun topic, but it is extremely useful and it's something you wanted to talk about. Open enrollment is coming up for people uh with their employer benefit plans, with some government plans. And so it's there's some really important decisions that I think people probably feel like I do, like, ah, it's I don't want to deal with this. And then they make the decision to just to get it over with, but they're gonna there's some really big decisions. And so we thought, let's talk this through. What are the main decisions you're gonna need to make? What do some of these things mean? Because I I've I've helped so many people click through their employee benefit plans and don't really know what you're signing up for. And so, yes, um, I think it's a great idea to talk through this. I mean, yeah, where do you want to start with this? Well, what what is open enrollment? Just starting there.

SPEAKER_00: 2:25

Yeah. So I think it refers to in general, it's this period in the fall when you can make changes to your benefits, be they employer benefits or if you're on Medicare, you know, potentially make changes to certain Medicare um coverages or or plans. Um, or if you're, you know, in the Affordable Care Act, um, health exchange, you can once a year have the option to change the plan that you are on for the next calendar year. And so all of these open enrollment periods tend to happen in the fall, you know, maybe starting October 1st, or and they may go for a couple of months. And so it's that it's that time of year when, I don't know, HR comes to you with a big stack of of benefits and say, what do you want? Uh and so you know, here here most people kind of look at that and and say, oh, whatever you did last year, just copy forward. Uh but it's you know, it's worth taking some time to actually understand what are these benefits and what are the actual, you know, what what changes should we consider making and and how do we put a framework around?

SPEAKER_01: 3:32

Yeah. So probably the biggest one that most people are aware of that I think affects everyone, whether you're working or not, is health insurance, right? Because if you're employed, your employer health insurance window opens. If you're on Medicare, that window opens. And if you're neither of those, then the ACA window opens. So um we could obviously do an entire episode on health insurance, but that's how do you want to approach this talk about it from the employer plan first, maybe? And then let's start with focusing on folks that are still employed. Okay. So health insurance to your employer. America's great, lots of choice. It means something totally different depending on where you work. What are at the high level the typical decisions people have to make?

SPEAKER_00: 4:13

Yeah. Um, I mean, if you if you are employed and you and you're lucky enough to have insurance through your employer, if you have a large employer or if or even a small employer that offers it, you know, typically there's going to be some options. Not always, um, but typically there's going to be some options to choose from. Um there may be an HMO option, there may be a PPO option, um, or a high deductible plan option. And and um, yeah, you know, for those of you that don't, you know, most people I think are are are familiar with what the basic um types of health insurance are. So I don't, you know, I don't want to get into the weeds too much on them, but um it's to say, you know, I would say it it's it's important to to consider um kind of all the options based on on what your healthcare needs are. I think um a lot of people's default assumption, especially if the employer is is paying for a substantial portion of it, is just pick the Cadillac option, pick the one with the highest premiums, lowest deductible, you know, the ones that's going to cover the most. Um and sure, if your employer is is picking up the tab, you know, maybe maybe you do want to go for that that you know most robust plan. Um but if you are paying for a portion of it with salary deductions, um, or if you're in a in a situation where you're generally you know pretty healthy, a low user of of healthcare, you know, outside of your annual physical, um, going with a higher deductible plan can can be the more much more cost-effective option. And and especially if it enables you to save uh uh HSA or health savings account, um, it it can often be the way to go.

SPEAKER_01: 6:05

Yeah, so remember what is the right answer? I'm air quoting. Like mathematically speaking, you can't know the right answer until the year's over and you know how much you used it. And the general thought would be if you're not gonna use it much, then pay the lowest premiums you can, which would be a high deductible plan. Uh if you are gonna use it a lot, then the lower deductible plan. Now there's a trade-off there of how high the premiums are and how high the deductible is. But just as a simpler way, like, are you expecting to use a lot of health insurance? If you are, then probably a lower deductible plan, a higher premium plan. Again, maybe. Um But I think it's interesting because a lot nobody's planning on using meta. Well, okay. Some people are. Like if you have young kids, you might know you're gonna go to the doctor a lot. But what about the people that say, like, I'm probably not gonna need much health insurance, so I'm gonna do the high deductible plan? I think you just need to be prepared to actually pay that deductible in case you do need it. That that's the the one thing I would really want to make sure is clear.

SPEAKER_00: 7:05

Sure, yeah. I mean, you you should take that savings, uh, the premium savings, and probably stick it in an HSA or or some kind of savings vehicle to be able to meet that deductible or or co-pay uh if and when something happens. I mean, and something else I'll say about uh the high deductible plans, it it really depends on the plan itself. I mean, I've seen um with a large employer near near where I am where um if you look at the the options they have in a scenario where you have a major health event, whether it's a big, you know, uh cancer diagnosis or you know, a stay at the emergency room or the ICU for an extended period of time that really runs up the medical bill. Most folks, you know, we would think, oh, well, that that high deductible plan, therefore, is going to be the more expensive. I mean, end up paying more if I have a high deductible plan. But actually, when you run the numbers for for some of those kind of high cost years, you end up paying less out of pocket in a high deductible plan because you've hit that maximum out-of-pocket limit faster than you would have if you had the the lower deductible, where you may have like a longer co-pay period or coinsurance period. So, you know, the devil's in the details in these, and and you know, it's important to consider other things like what network of doctors um is available under each plan, or is the doctor you you want to go to in network or the specialists um that you want to see or want to be able to see if you need to, considered in network, or do you need a referral? Um so there's all sorts of trade-offs here, um, you know, probably more than we can go into in a single episode, um, even if we spent the whole episode on it.

SPEAKER_01: 8:59

Do you think you could give, and I'm putting you on the spot here, like three rules of thumb to how for how people could think this through? Like usage network. What what would it be? I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00: 9:13

Yeah, I think uh anticipated usage is is gonna be the biggest driver on the cost side and how each plan um covers from whether it is the deductible and then the ma that maximum out-of-pocket number. Um so that that's probably the first consideration. The second one is is like you brought up the network, or is your doctor within that network? Because if they're not, you may be stuck paying a higher out-of-network, you know, uh fee or have a higher out-of-network deductible. Um, and so you want to make sure obviously that all the doctors you regularly see are still within network for that plan. Um yeah, I mean, uh the the last one to think about maybe is is prescription drug coverage. All of these, if you are on a more expensive drug that's not a generic, uh you really want to be sure you've you've run that through um the the health plan to see what is that going to cost me. Um, you know, different insurance companies treat different drugs differently. It may be a tier one drug at one insurance uh provider and it may be you know lower tier. Some may have a copay on the drug as opposed to a percentage pay, and that can really make a big difference if you're on more expensive medications.

SPEAKER_01: 10:37

Yeah. Okay. Yes, definitely uh a lot more to be said there for a future episode there. So okay. Health insurance is one. It's always kind of confusing to people why it's not included in health insurance, because to us outside the industry, dental envision feels like it's part of health, but it's generally a separate decision you have to make during open enrollment. How do you think about dental envision insurance?

SPEAKER_00: 11:00

Yeah, I mean, if if if it's something that the employer is providing and paying for it, or you know, paying for most of the cost, then sure. So you should you should sign up for it. Um if if you're on the other side and you are the one paying out of pocket for for that dental envision coverage, it's less clear that there's a major benefit to to paying um out of pocket for for dental envision coverage. Um the reason being, you know, when we think about insurance, you know, I I want to protect against the things that I can't afford to have happen. Um I want to, I would, you know, thinking about a trip to the dentist, I, you know, the root canal or the implant or whatever that's gonna be thousands and thousands of dollars or a surgery. If you read these dental policies, there's a very clear, you know, maximum that this policy will pay out. And if you need something like that, like you're gonna be paying out of pocket for it anyways, or mostly out of pocket. And same with vision, you know, may it'll pay for a new pair of glasses every two years. Uh but it's not gonna pay for for other you know, glaucoma treatments and things like that.

SPEAKER_01: 12:15

Exactly. That's always like it's so you go, oh, I have an issue with my tooth. I have dental insurance. No, it's not covered. It I it seems that, and I think this is intentional though, a lot, like the price of dental envision, the premiums generally for a year add up to about the out-of-pocket cost of one to two exams.

unknown: 12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:34

It's kind of you're basically prepaying for basic care.

SPEAKER_01: 12:38

Yeah. And maybe get some like discounted fluoride or something like that. I mean, it's it's I don't want to like I so I would say if you're gonna use it, I think it's still worth it because it is kind of a wash. If you're not going to at all, um would you say if you're not going to use it at all, like you're not going to the dentist and the eye doctor?

SPEAKER_00: 12:56

First of all, you should be going to the dentist. Yeah, yeah. Uh you know, say you know, twice a year. Uh you'll you'll uh your future self will thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 13:05

I'm actually genuinely curious. Starting to dig into your personal, but your wife's an ophthalmologist, correct?

SPEAKER_00: 13:08

She is, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:10

What is that covered under?

SPEAKER_00: 13:12

Yeah, so ophthalmology is covered under medical insurance. Health insurance. Health insurance, yeah. So she she doesn't actually take vision insurance.

SPEAKER_01: 13:21

Uh but see that's for an outsider, you go, oh, eyes, clearly. Vision, ophthalmologist, and then to know, that's actually something different.

SPEAKER_00: 13:28

So yeah, it's a com it's a common um frustration for for her her practice and for patients of a practice. You know, I've got this vision coverage, but you know, that that only covers glasses and contacts, and you know, it doesn't cover medical issues. You know, but health insurance will. Yeah. Um, but but And that's the tricky thing.

SPEAKER_01: 13:48

If you go, oh, what if I need eye surgery? Well, that's health insurance.

SPEAKER_00: 13:50

Yeah. You know, and so um, okay. So generally it's it's great if it's a great benefit if if your employer's paying for it. If you have to pay out of pocket for it, then you know you you've got a decision to make. And and if you're someone that is a lighter user, maybe you don't use glasses and and all you don't expect to go to the dentist more than your two annual cleanings a year, you may decide to to just pay for those things out of pocket. You know?

SPEAKER_01: 14:19

And that's like dental envision is not covering hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of care, correct?

SPEAKER_00: 14:25

Right. Yeah. They they if you if you have a major need, it's not going to pay very much.

SPEAKER_01: 14:28

So I what I would say is if you found yourself where you've got some funds and some liquidity and you decide to forego or accidentally forego dental envision, you have not exposed yourself to a massive liability in the way that you would not having health insurance. Yes, 100%. There it like dental envision, I would say it's kind of one of those kind of a wash. If it encourages you to go to the dentist and I doctor, do it. If you skip it, you didn't just potentially blow up your financial plan. Yeah, I think that's right. What about life and disability? Employers often offer these, it's another checkbox. I have some thoughts, but I want to hear yours first on if you want to take it one at a time, life then DI through employers or or both at once. What are your thoughts there?

SPEAKER_00: 15:10

Sure. Yeah. So when we're talking about life or DI through an employer, these are group plans, which means that um the the it's really the employer that is the customer here of the insurance company, and they're putting together a pool of their employees to purchase, you know, blanket coverage for any anyone that's participating in that group. And so it's different than if you were to go buy a personal uh life insurance policy, a personal disability policy. And the ways that insurance companies underwrite these are slightly different. And so um there's some you know, some opportunities here to, you know, especially if if you're someone that can't get life insurance on the private side, you know, maybe your health history is not great, or you're you know, you're a former smoker, or um, and so you're not insurable, you couldn't go out and get an insurance plan. You know, maybe getting life insurance through your employer is is gonna be the better way to get coverage than an effective way. Could be your only way.

SPEAKER_01: 16:19

Yeah. Um I was in that situation eight years ago, post-rehab stuff where it was like, I it was gonna be, yeah. So group would have been the only way to get it. Um sorry.

SPEAKER_00: 16:29

Yeah, no, I think uh the generally, you know, I think if if you are, you know, younger, healthier, um it's probably better to get an insurance policy on the private side, um, just because then it's not tied to your employer and and you know, it gives you more flexibility to be able to leave that employer and still be covered.

SPEAKER_01: 16:51

Yeah. So I the the way I think about it is like group, especially because sometimes sometimes it there's like free one or two years of salary or like just an insanely low price. That's great. Take it, that's fantastic. Um but it's not like your life insurance solution is not solved if you have a group employer, if you have a group life insurance benefit. Um all the time, well, I've got through my employer. One, it generally doesn't, if you especially if you have family and kids relying on your income, it's normally not a meaningful amount. Um, two, if you ever leave your employer, you don't have coverage, and that just exposes you to a bunch. The third one is while sometimes it can be a really cheap insurance, sometimes it's not at all. Where if you don't know better, it's the numbers are so good. You can go, wow,$500,000 of death benefit for$1,000 a year. And it's like it just seems like such a small number, but you may not know that you could go get that online somewhere or through somebody else for$400 a year. And like literally, sometimes I've seen two, three X markup on some of these group plans where I'm like, how many people are just clicking the button because they don't because it's easy and they don't know any better? Well, yeah, I mean, it it it's one of those that if it's if it's free to you, by all means take it. If it's you know, I would shop it at least a little bit though. Um if you if you if you have somebody you can trust, uh insurance agent, that's great. You can also work with there's online tools, uh slight caveat. Uh the price of term insurance actually doesn't depend whether it doesn't change if somebody's getting a commission or not. So don't worry about working with an agent on that. But I would just um yeah, I think that's that's what I would say about life insurance to an employer. Like it's it's it's something, but it's generally not everything. And before you go to and pay a whole bunch more, if you want to go like uh above your one or two years of salary and purchase extra through there, probably would encourage you to shop that somewhere else.

SPEAKER_00: 18:45

Yeah. And I think the same's true for disability um as well. You know, definitely worth shopping it on the private market. You may find that the group insurance is cheaper. Um however, um, you know, one one you're important to consider uh the tax differences between the two. Generally, you know, if you're if you're buying a disability policy yourself individually on the private market and paying with after tax dollars, any benefit you get from that policy is going to be tax free if you if you ever have to claim the disability benefit. Whereas if you're getting it through an employer and the employer's paying those premiums, um your benefit is going to be taxed as if it were income. Um, because that employer is getting a tax deduction, you know, as an expense for for providing this coverage. Um, and and therefore on the back end, you owe tax on any benefit that comes. So that's the that's the major thing to think about, especially being sure when you're comparing costs, are you comparing after tax to pre-tax? Um, and and what's the the is there a is there really a savings there, or is that just Yeah, uh and that's that's a huge point.

SPEAKER_01: 19:59

And look, we've talked about it before disability insurance is not fun, nobody wants to pay for it. It it feels like a tax, because it kind of is. Um But let's say your DI premiums are through a group plan might be three grand a year for a ten thousand dollar year benefit. It's probably too cheap, whatever. But you can get private plan for$4,000 a year in premium. Oh, why would I pay the extra thousand? Because that$10,000 benefit is one's tax-free, the other's taxable. It's massive, massive, massive. So big difference. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00: 20:31

And also just paying attention to what their definition of disability is, um, because a lot of employer plans are gonna have a um uh a more strict definition of what it means to be disabled. Uh and if if you can, you know, what what that's called is is um any uh what is it called? Own oc in any occupation. Yeah, own occupation in any occupation. So and any occupation means to be considered disabled, you can't be able to do any job that you're qualified to do. Um you can't be, you know, able to flip burgers or or whatever and be considered disabled. Whereas a lot of times on the private side, people opt for, and then I think rightfully so, an own occupation definition, which means to be considered disabled, you just have to be unable to do your own occupation. If I'm a doctor who sees patients in a clinic, if I'm not able to see patients in the clinic, I am considered disabled, even if I could go sit and be a telehealth doctor uh from a chair all day. And so paying attention to that definition and for how long that benefit would be paid is another huge difference between private and group.

SPEAKER_01: 21:44

So life and DI through your employer could be better than nothing, but probably not your best, not the optimal long-term solution is to take away there.

SPEAKER_00: 21:53

Yeah. And there can be some interesting interplay too. I mean, generally uh you're you can't on the private side insure against more than about 60% of your income. Um you can't usually insure 100% of your income. Um and and if you have a group policy that already covers some portion of income, that may count against how much insurance you could buy on the private side. However, if you go the other direction and start with a private policy um at 60% covering 60% of your income, generally you could layer a group policy on top of that. Um, because the group policy may not have some of the same restrictions. So if you're in a you know a high, if you're in a profession that where there's a high likelihood of being disabled and you really want to get extra protection, pay attention to the order in which you you go go for those two.

SPEAKER_01: 22:50

Oh, that's fascinating. Um what else on the employer side? So you've clicked through, you've done your health insurance, your HSA. Uh we're not talking about like retirement plans right now, because that's you can make those changes generally whenever, but life and DI, and then there's generally like another page or two at the end with a bunch of other goodies that you can sign up for. Um What are your thoughts on those? Or what are some examples of some of those?

SPEAKER_00: 23:13

Ooh, yeah, there's all kinds of other benefits, critical illness, um, accidental death, um dismemberment. Accidental death and dismemberment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:27

But it is I mean, oversimplifying, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 23:30

Where which which could, you know, if you're in a high if you're if you're a machinist, you know, maybe that's that's a real risk. Um I I don't anticipate losing a limb sitting in my office chair. But uh, you know, there can be some legal benefit. You know, they may provide uh uh legal payments for estate planning or or something like that. And and you know, just evaluate the costs. I mean, there's um if the emplo employer's picking up the tab, then sure. If if not, um you know, compare it to what you could do on the private market and and also consider the fact that the the professionals that they're referring you to may not be, you know, they're not working for you, they're working for the employer.

SPEAKER_01: 24:14

Um I'm really torn on these because all uh all insurance pricing factors is in the probability. The things here at the end are super low probability. That's why the premiums are super low for you know, maybe$150,000 for accidental death and dismemberment, it might be like$10 a year,$100 a year. It's I think you'd be totally fine skipping it. And there's gonna be uh 0.1% of people who lose a lamb and go, dang it. I should have done it. But I'm oversimplifying a little bit, but like generally the things here at the end of the plant are uh at the end are just kind of goodies, little add-ons, kind of like uh like the snacks in a checkout aisle, like you probably didn't need it, but I guess if you're gonna have it, it's not the end of the world, but probably I don't know, don't need all of those things.

SPEAKER_00: 25:00

Yeah. And one thing I'll mention quickly, you know, following our episode last week on how financial planning changes with kids, you know, think about those FSA accounts. If your employer offers a flexible spending account for childcare, um, generally you have to decide on how much you want to set aside for that FSA during open enrollment and you're stuck with it for the next year. You can't change it again until until opening open enrollment. So um definitely consider that. You know, if you know you've got you know twelve thousand dollars of daycare, you you might as well max out that FSA.

SPEAKER_01: 25:40

Can you think of a reason if you know you if you have kids and you're paying for child care, why you would not contribute to a dependent care FSA?

SPEAKER_00: 25:49

Is this a trick question?

SPEAKER_01: 25:51

I can't know. I can't think of what I mean. I'm saying I would take a little harder line. Like if you're offered it and you know you're gonna have child care, do it. Like, why would you not?

SPEAKER_00: 26:00

You know Yeah. And just to clarify, like, this is a way to pay for child care with pre-tax dollars. That sometimes the employer kicks in some money to the FSA and and that's great. That's a benefit to you. Most of the time, you know, it's it's you setting aside money before taxes to pay for child care.

SPEAKER_01: 26:20

I would I would love for these to become like standard wily. I it it I think it kind of sucks that it's not everybody has that. Like, why not?

SPEAKER_00: 26:27

But yeah. Yeah. I mean, talk to your HR and talk to your employer because you know, generally it doesn't cost them much to set these up. It's just uh it it's it's not that it's not that complicated. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:39

I I not to derail us, but a lot of times the people who make the decisions for these plans aren't living the same lives as a lot of the people using them. I don't know how else to say that. Uh I found that to be the case. Like the single 55-year-old male made the decision about dependent care FSA. Shocker. You know, I'm just saying. He wasn't saying he just wasn't thinking about it. Yeah, no, and not in like it's malice, just wasn't real to them. Um okay, what else? I know we've we've we've talked a lot already. Um what else on the open enrollment side? Anything else?

SPEAKER_00: 27:09

Uh yeah, I mean, just a couple other general things. Like if if you're married and and your spouse also has benefits through their employer, you know, you this is an exercise you should probably do together. You know, you compare the health plans across the two. If they offer a family plan, you know, what what are your options there if they'll cover the other spouse? You know, sometimes an employer will say, Oh, well, if the spouse has a job and and health care through the plan, then no, you can't put them on your plan. But other times there's not a um, there's no requirement like that. So, you know, think think about all of these benefits in coordination with your spouse, especially with the FSA, like you are limited per household for how much you can put in the FSA. So if one of you is contributing to the FSA, the other person can't.

SPEAKER_01: 27:53

Um Yeah, and so something I see quite frequently is, you know, if you have two spouses working, a lot of times your employer group health plan will be almost free for the employee. Barely more for the employee and kids, but you add a spouse and it can jump significantly. Like I remember ours, it was like 50 bucks a month for the employee, 150 bucks a month for employee plus kids, 700 bucks a month for employee spouse and kids. And what ends up happening is uh each how each spouse enrolls in their own plan and the kids go on one of theirs. Um and that combined premium, and it makes it things a little more complicated, but that is something I I think it makes sense to do. And and um so definitely, yeah, I think that's a good point that if you are, if you're you and your spouse are both spouse are both going through open enrollment, sit down and compare your plan, your your benefits side by side and see which one makes the most sense. And don't be, I mean, that complexity of having the two plans could be worth it. I mean, it could save a couple hundred bucks a month. Yeah. Yeah. Um I don't know if we're gonna be able to get to all the Medicare and ACA stuff in this episode.

SPEAKER_00: 29:03

Yeah. I mean, I'd just briefly I'll say, you know, a lot of the things we were talking about with healthcare plans apply to to Medicare and ACA. The way you can compare the the different options and especially be aware of drug prices. Um and and and if you're on any new medications, you know, make sure you review those prescription drug plans or the Part D plan, which changes every year. Um and if you're on Medicare Advantage, uh, you know, then your plan may actually change year to year. What it's covered and and and what the premiums are can can change significantly. And so, you know, definitely is worth taking the time. Uh compare those.

SPEAKER_01: 29:48

Uh for Medicare episode 17, we did an episode with Margo Steinloggy, who that's a good one. That was a longer episode. That Medicare is not a small decision, so um I would check out that episode if you're facing that decision.

SPEAKER_00: 30:03

Um it's one that I often refer out to uh uh someone like Marg to, you know, the she's the expert. She's the one looking at these plans day to day and year to year and seeing what all the changes are and helping clients you know think through what prescription drugs they're on and what kinds of coverages or health changes may impact. Their choice there. So yeah, that that's that's one where there's there's a lot going on too. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01: 30:34

Um so okay, open enrollment. There's plenty more we could or can say, maybe we will in the future, but um the biggest one is the health insurance. Um think that through. Uh consider your use. Um if you don't, even if you don't expect to use a lot of health insurance next year, make sure you can afford it if you do. That's you know, none of us plan on it. Um dental envision, a little bit of a wash. Uh life and DI can be nice to have, but it's not the long-term solution. And the supplemental benefits, you know, grab that candy in the checkout aisle. That's how I view that stuff. If you want to, it's not like a huge deal one way or the other. Um anything else you would add?

SPEAKER_00: 31:19

Yeah. Um no, I think this was a good, you know, overview of of what to think about this year's open enrollment comes around. Yeah, reach out to a financial advisor if if this is all Greek to you and you know you want someone that can can help take that overarching look um at what the benefits are. A lot of people don't realize that that that is what you know a financial a comprehensive financial planner will do.

SPEAKER_01: 31:43

Um there's so much context. That's the hardest part with all of these, is it's just the typical it depends, it depends, it depends. And um, if it's not immediately obvious to you which one's best, this is something that like, especially if you have a pre-existing relationship, like an hour or 30 minutes, you can go through somebody, you know, we can help somebody go through their benefits and pick those. Um it is, there's confusing terms, and how does it interplay with the rest of your financial plan? So definitely do that. Um, yeah, that's good stuff. Open enrollment season. It'll come back around next year. But uh good luck. Let us know if you need any help. All right. All right, man. See you next time.

SPEAKER_00: 32:21

See you next time.