SPEAKER_00: 0:25

Welcome back to another episode of the Make the Most Super Money Podcast. Mr. Page, how are you? I'm doing well, Mr. Stewart. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm um I'm hanging in there. Uh kids, they're a lot of work. Uh just had one. Stressful. We're both kind of dealing with some stuff right now. Um we've been talking about just the the challenges of kids at at large and also in a planning context, and thought that could be a really good episode conversation. It's talking about from a financial planning aspect. I mean, there's a lot of other stuff you can talk about, kids, but from a planning aspect, how does your life change when you have kids? Um and hopefully kind of how to think through some of these decisions you have to make um and try to be tactical where we can. Um so since I'm kind of right got a fresh one here, I would say the number one thing you'll notice when you have a kid is your expenses go up a lot. Some of these are gonna seem obvious, but like I I I think it's good to think through. So um, yeah, I mean, I've I know you have some interesting thoughts on on expenses with kids. What would you say around?

SPEAKER_01: 1:37

Yeah, I mean, the the expenses is probably the number one or you know, the most most apparent change uh, you know, starting with that hospital bill. Um you know, that that can be a shock to a lot of people. If if you weren't if you were relatively healthy before that didn't have a whole lot of experience with your health insurance and how it works, you know, getting that hospital bill back from from you know that's those two, three nights in the labor and delivery ward can be can be a shock. Uh and so yeah, and then that and that's just the startup that I mean there's childcare. Um your weekly expenses go up. Um and then, you know, thinking about your living situation, you your your family's growing, you may need a bigger house, you may need a car that has, you know, two two roads, you may need a minivan, like we have, you may, um, there's all these kind of um lifestyle changes that happen when you have a kid and you've you've got another another mouth to feed, as it were.

SPEAKER_00: 2:36

I think something like, you know, anybody with kids is gonna be like, yeah, again, this is obvious. Thank you. But I think people who haven't had kids yet or think about how to plan for it, it's super tricky because if you think, you know, you want to be able to save 20% of your income, we talk about that all the time for like long for like retirement, right? Your kid could take up 20% of your income, depending on how much you make. So that almost means before having one, by the book, you need to be saving around 40%, 50%, you know, a lot to be able to then have a kid and stay on track. Um, I I think personally, like, I mean, I live this every day, and I I still didn't get my estimate right of how much kids cost. Um, but that's that's really hard to be, you know, maybe you're 30 years old, you're married, you have dual income. It's pretty easy to be like, well, we can afford this, we can afford that, but you're just the you have to have a lot of slack to be able to just have a kid and stay on track.

SPEAKER_01: 3:32

Yeah, there's a there's a name for that. Uh I've heard dinks. Have you have you heard that term dual dual income, no kids? I mean, those are those are your neighbors with the sports cars down the street that uh, you know, they've got when you when you don't have kids, you've got two incomes, you've got a lot of disposable income, um, you know, most likely.

SPEAKER_00: 3:54

So actually that's that's an interesting one because you I know you have you have some really interesting thoughts on this. Um the dual income part, right? So like obviously one thing that certainly helps with higher expenses is to have a higher income. Um there are all sorts of personal reasons for somebody to stay home, right? Well, there'd be a sick, a single income with kids or something like that. Um and we're not talking about that. If you make those people are sick, it um that that's a that that's a very personal thing. But um depending on somebody's situation, there could be where you say, okay, maybe um I have two or three kids, my child cares$50,000 a year. After tax, I'm not making any money. I'm just gonna stay home.

unknown: 4:36

Right?

SPEAKER_00: 4:37

I mean, on the surface, that seems really, really logical. You I'm only really making about$10,000 or whatever the numbers may be. You have a really interesting way to think about that though, uh, as a trade-off. What go ahead and tell us?

SPEAKER_01: 4:47

Yeah, I mean, first I want to preface it with, you know, here here we are, two guys uh talking about what is often a like very gendered pattern. You know, we've seen it with all our friends where it's it's often, you know, it's not always, but often it's it's the husband that stays at work uh and and the wife who who takes a step back, even if she was in a high power professional career track. You know, we've seen lots of uh my wife's a doctor, and we've seen lots of her female doctor friends do do this, and they're you know, highly trained, spent a lot of money on education and training and built their practices, and then, you know, kids come and and yes, there are there are absolutely lifestyle reasons to want to to stay home. Um I think what what I would hope to to guide people through is just how to evaluate the financial side of of this as well alongside the the personal or or um where where there are there is room for choice and different differences of opinion and what people want to do and how they want to live their lives. You know, I'm not trying to put my values on them. But you know, so let's think about it. I mean, I I think um the example you gave of like you've got two, three young kids at home, daycare can be, you know, fifty thousand dollars a year, you know, could be higher in some jurisdictions. So that doesn't feel good when when you've got two working parents and and uh you know you look at your take-home pay after making that that paying that bill, and it's like zero, or it's negative, or or it's it's a low number. I mean, I remember so our our first was born while my wife was um finishing med school and then going into residency, and and you know, residents don't make a whole lot of money, but uh we paid for her child care out of her uh paycheck. Yeah, it just got deducted from the paycheck, and like it didn't feel good to be working as many hours as she was and then you know, get your paycheck every two weeks and it's you know a few hundred dollars uh after after childcare has been taken out. So but um, you know, we knew like this was a longer-term investment, and you know, it it uh and and I think what what can feel like a good decision in the in the moment sometimes financially, or like the prudent thing to do when when your income or one of the spouse's incomes is being totally soaked up by childcare. It could feel prudent to have them step back and and take care of the kids, but I I want to urge people to think about well, what's the long-term impact of taking that time off from a financial perspective. Now, obviously there are other reasons to do it than the other thing.

SPEAKER_00: 7:38

Yeah, I think we're not the people we know like if mathematically, financially, staying home is not optimal for long-term wealth. Fine. But I'm talking about the people that maybe want to continue working, who make the decision and go, well, I'm not making anything currently, so I'm gonna stop working for a few years. What you were telling me before is the way to think about like it's life is not linear, but if you think about your income, if you're earning more and more every single year, like a straight line up and to the right, if you stop for five years, you kind of miss out on that compound. And then when you get back in the workforce five years later, you're starting five years behind where you would have been. And so it can be tricky of like, okay, you may not be netting very much for those five years, but having that five-year head start once you get back in the workforce could be very, very valuable over the long term.

SPEAKER_01: 8:25

Is that yeah, that's that's exactly that's exactly right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 8:29

Yeah. That's I think that's a fascinating way to think about it. Cause yeah, I think most people are just in the moment going, oh, this isn't worth it right now, but not realizing in five years, because you could earn that other that higher income for 25 more years, you know, because we live in the world of compound numbers all the time. We understand the value and the impact of that. But that five year missing out on five years of income growth can be very, very meaningful. So again, those are that's for the people who want to stay at work. Um, like we're both like kind of over-acknowledging, like if you don't want to, that's fine. But but um the people who want to and just are thinking of that short term, another framing for it. Um something else that's I haven't totally lived yet, but there's everybody talks about daycare, daycare, daycare. It's so expensive, and it is. I can tell you that right now. They talk about like the kindergarten bonus, like if your kid goes to public school and you're no longer paying for it. I'm also heard it's not it's not dollar for dollar, though. It's not like all of a sudden a five-year-old doesn't cost anything. Can you talk about that? Of like, what would you advise? What would you advise me if I had a normal kid situation of like, okay, yeah, you're paying 20 grand a year per kid, it's not fully going away. How would you think about that? Like when a kid does become school age and if you're not paying for private school.

SPEAKER_01: 9:35

Yeah, I mean, yeah, those ex a lot of those ex new expenses, yes, you get you get the daycare money back or what you would have been spending on daycare. Now maybe you've got a little bit more flex in your budget and and maybe you've got an ability to save more of that now. But there kids are expensive. Uh, you know, even if they're not yeah, go ahead. What were you thinking about?

SPEAKER_00: 9:58

Well, the one thing I was thinking about is like, oh, daycare is year-round a lot of times. You know, school age kids got a summer off. You gotta entertain them. That's that's not free. How much was summer camp? You know, summer camp. Baseball, soccer, dance, all these classes. Like, so I I I see that a lot of like people, I think, oversimplify when they're budgeting. They go, okay, well, daycare is gonna end in five years, and so my 20,000 is gonna go to zero. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_01: 10:19

Yeah, you're you're still gonna spend six thousand on summer camps if if you're if you're working and you gotta have child care for them.

SPEAKER_00: 10:25

That's again something that I probably modeled incorrectly if I hadn't listened to other people. It's like, okay, yeah, and in five years I'm gonna get this bump. No, I'm not. Yeah. And and I think that's a good time to bring up. I kind of dance around my situation. My oldest daughter's got a pretty severe medical issue that is extraordinarily expensive. Whatever. That's an outlier situation. But I think the point needs to be made that model all you want, project all you want. When you have a kid, you have no freaking clue what's gonna happen, and you're opening yourself up to a wild range of outcomes that even what you think day care could cost could be completely wrong. And this, you just have to accept that and build that flexibility. And I think that's gonna, this flexibility is gonna come into some of the other stuff we want to talk about later.

SPEAKER_01: 11:06

But um, yeah, I just it's yeah, I mean, that it reminds me of the the famous Mike Tyson quote, you know, everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth. And and you know, you you don't know what when you have kids. It's it's a new it's a new life who's gonna have all all sorts of um you know, you know, there's a whole range of possible outcomes that that that that that child or uh paths that child could take and things that they may need to support them. And you know, we're we're we're fortunate that we've been able to give our kids what we need, but they need extra help. We we've had to, you know, we've had to hire um specialists or therapists to work with our kids and and and that you know that's a significant expense that uh like you were saying, I never imagined we would be having to pay that. Yeah, yeah. Uh but we'll do anything we we'll do anything for them. You know, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 12:03

Yeah, and I and it yes, there's plenty of benefits to outweigh these costs. Sometimes when we talk about this, we can be a little like I don't know, cynical, just all about the numbers. Ah, this kid's an expense on the they are an expense, but they're worth it, right? Um so okay, daycare, we know that. Um let's talk about insurance. One thing, uh, you know, I talked about the medical bill, health insurance generally goes up. Maybe your premiums increase if you you might, I mean, if you're single, if you have a group plan, you're single, when you're single, it might be almost free. And you get married, it might be a little bit more. You have a family, not only the premiums get higher, but now you got a lot more deductibles meeting, a higher out-of-pocket maximum. And so you're, you know, budgeting in for an increase, you're staying liquid for health care costs. There can be non-health insurance covered cared costs that we both experience. And so being aware of that. Um something I I can speak to personally also on the insurance side, all of a sudden, I wanted life insurance. Because you look at a plan, you're like, oh, this works if the income's there, but it completely falls apart if uh that income's gone. And so life insurance, all of a sudden, it was just fascinating from like a nuisance I know I should do to genuinely something I was excited to go get.

SPEAKER_01: 13:18

Um you had a similar experience or yeah, I mean, we we probably put it off too long, and and I have plenty of clients that that are in that same boat too. You know, it was just not high on the priority list, and and so we I think we probably waited until our son was two or three before we got our first you know term life insurance policies. Um, you know, I want to say like I want to say that's okay. Like the important, you know, whatever what's in the past is past, but but insurance is a is a big it's a big deal. And like you said, if if if one of your incomes goes away because you're because uh premature death or because of a disability, you know, the the plan doesn't work without that income. And so it's a you know, while you're you're doing all these other things to protect your newborn um, you know, day and night, uh like insurance is is one of those that often gets put on the back burner. And um, you know, we've seen sad c consequences of families where they didn't have insurance or didn't have enough. And um yeah, so I think uh having kids is is the is a natural time to like go out and get that life insurance policy.

SPEAKER_00: 14:32

We've talked about it in in past episodes, but how do you think about how much life insurance to get? And does it change when you have young kids versus teenagers?

SPEAKER_01: 14:41

Yeah, I mean I think it changes throughout your life. Um, you know, as as you when when you are just starting out, when you have young kids, your need when you have many, many more years of income ahead of you that that you would have been using to build up that retirement nest egg or um pay for college or you know, care of that that kid, that growing kid, you know, imagine uh if if that income stream gets cut off and and what position would your spouse be in and your child be in with without that? And so how do you think about how much? I mean, there's a number of ways you can you can do it. You could do a simple like multiple of your income, you know, say 10 times your income, 15 times your income to get a good, you know, round number. Um you can um you could you could you know get a little fancier with a spreadsheet and and look at here's here's what my income is gonna be, you know, projected forward for the next 20 years, and now I'm gonna discount that back. You know, a dollar tomorrow is not the same as a dollar today. So we're we you know we'll discount that and and and that'll give you an answer for like how could we replace that income, that lost income for the next 20 years or something like that. And that'll give you a different number. Um, or you could build it from the bottom up. You could think, well, here are my expenses, here's what our mortgage is, um, here's what college is gonna cost for the kids, and you could build from a bottom-up um approach, like here's how much you need.

SPEAKER_00: 16:14

Um yeah, I I think number like just without any numbers, it's the way to think about it is what position will the people who rely on your income be in if it goes away? And how much do you want to change that? Number one. And then from a more tactical perspective, yeah, there's like kind of how many years of income. But then, yeah, like I think there's some good formulas for like if you think about like you could prorate, like it's 250,000 a kid, prorate it over 18 years. If they're 10 years old, they cap that number, something like that. But um, no, I don't want to get too distracted with that. I just think uh life insurance is a very interesting one and it can change over life. And the other thing there, for the people who may not have kids yet, why would I get life insurance? It's never gonna be cheaper than it is right now when you're younger and insured. Um Absolutely. I I waited to get life insurance. My wife got it earlier. She's responsible and she pays a lot less than I do. And um, so yeah, that's another one that's that's tough behaviorally to do. Um another unfun not fun thing that comes to mind is estate planning also starts to get a lot more real. Yeah. What do you need to do from an estate planning perspective?

SPEAKER_01: 17:21

I mean, the single most important thing for parents of young kids um or minors is figuring out who would care for your kids if you and your spouse couldn't do it. Um, you know, because you've passed away or or, you know, in become incapacitated or something. So, you know, that that's not um that's not the same as, you know, having a will in place, but you know, it it sometimes the the guardianship nomination can be part of the will. It's part of a complete estate plan. And so naming that person or people who will take care of your child if you're yeah, you're you estate planning is just making decisions ahead of time.

SPEAKER_00: 17:58

You ought to figure out where your money's gonna go, but you should probably figure out where your kids are gonna go. That's super important. And I think it also important with this, it may seem obvious, but make sure you ask the people that you nominate. I've seen that happen where I nominated a cousin or a good friend and they didn't tell the person, and just please confirm that with them.

SPEAKER_01: 18:19

Like I know that seems silly, but uh yeah, and and and have not only that, but have backups too, because the you know, these documents don't get rewritten every year. I mean, maybe you should be revisiting your choice, you know, regularly to make sure, like, is this still the right person or or home that that my child would you know be raised best in? You know, maybe that person's moved overseas and that would no longer be a good choice. So and and and so you want to have have backups as well.

SPEAKER_00: 18:48

Yeah. How about titling accounts or like beneficiary forms if you have really young kids? Like let's say you've got kids, I mean, they could be 10, 5, 3, 2, somewhere in that range. I mean, really anything under 18, but like a long time till you want them to actually have any money.

SPEAKER_01: 19:05

Yeah. Yeah, it's tricky because um you can't actually name the children directly on a beneficiary form um because miners can't can't inherit uh uh directly an account like that. Um they have to have a custodian while they're a minor. And so the way that you title it kind of depends on how your your overall estate plan works. If you've if you've named um if you've got a will and that creates a trust for the kids, you know, you may name the beneficiary as the the trustee of that trust for the benefit. You know, you may name that trust as the as the beneficiary. Same if you've got a revocable trust, you may name the trust as the the beneficiary, not the kids directly. If you name the kids directly, a custodian has to be appointed um by the court. And and then those kids would would inherit at the the legal age, either 18 or 21, depending on what what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00: 20:05

So yeah, like just quite about you can put a kid on a beneficiary forum. They're just not gonna get the money right away. So just Right.

SPEAKER_01: 20:11

And the court would have to appoint a custodian for it. Um and and it may not be, you know, you're putting that in the court's hands to figure out who's the right person for that. You know, probably they would choose the the executor of your will or the guardian of the children, but but maybe not. And and so um yeah, bet better to have kind of it be part of your full estate plan, you know, have a will or a trust that specifies who's going to custodian the money, who's gonna be the trustee for that those funds until your kids come of age. And maybe you don't want them to get it at 18 or 21. You know, if you've got a million-dollar life uh insurance policy, you know, think about what how how your life might have been different if at 18 on your 18th birthday you were given a million bucks. Like, how responsible would you have been? And so if you want to be able to like um, you know, maybe spread that out over more time or have them, you know, have have a trustee who can oversee those funds and disperse them for what your kids need, you know, uh along the way, but not actually give your kids full control of that money until later, then then you need to have uh either a will that that sets up a testamentary trust or a revocable trust um in place to to make sure that you can, you know, keep keep those assets uh protected longer.

SPEAKER_00: 21:35

I think that too, you gotta set up a will, not guardianship nomination. A revocable trust makes a lot of all this super easy. How long does that take? A day? Dedicated effort, depending on the tool you use. You could get it done in a day.

unknown: 21:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:51

Yeah. Okay. You could do it in a day for less than a thousand, depending on the service. There's some online platforms.$500 somewhere in there, maybe a little bit more. One day some money. Versus dying, your kids with no parents anymore would have to go that all this money would have to go before like just do it. Just do it.

SPEAKER_01: 22:15

Yeah, and especially if you if you haven't nominated a guardian, um, the court has to figure out who is the next best person to be in that role. And, you know, there there could be disagreements among surviving family members or or, you know, and and that is just think about how damaging that could be for a child to like not only have they lost their parents, but now they have no idea where they're going.

SPEAKER_00: 22:43

I think if you've ever had a family, like a close friend or family member, I think most people have, who watched a family go through a death and seen what happened. Like it's easy to think, oh, when I die, it'll be everybody will be on the same page. Has that been your experience with other people dying? Like it's generally not. Like, I mean, sometimes it is, but yeah, it's just making these decisions ahead of time is great. So a lot of this, I mean it's kind of like sums up parenting, is doing a lot of unfun stuff that uh makes sure things are less painful later.

SPEAKER_01: 23:13

Yeah, that applies to more than just yeah, there's more than just finances.

SPEAKER_00: 23:18

Yeah. I realize I kind of skipped over talking about liquidity and emergency fund, but I think a lot of this goes without saying, like, not only your expenses increase, but boosting your liquidity um is important too, you know, like to because there are, you know, higher deductibles, higher out-of-pockets, higher expenses, um, and just the unknowns that we talked about. Like, I mean, uh, how many times does like, oh my gosh, there's a$2,000 expense just out of nowhere? Like, you know, as a single or married, that was like a trip to a hell of a weekend in New York or something like that. And that could just go away like in an afternoon with a kid. So like just having some extra care uh cash on hand is obviously important. Um, what about savings, though? I I think this is um can be really a difficult decision for parents because everybody wants what's best for their kids. A lot of people want to just start saving for college right away, and then they hear about 529s and then want to go dump money to 529 right away. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01: 24:16

Yeah, I mean, of course, like we have that that impulse. Like, I want my kids to go to college. I know college is expensive, I know I should start saving soon to be able to build up enough to be able to send them to that that school of their dreams or or whatever. Um, but uh, you know, I I I tend to caution clients of of very young kids uh in those early years who want to start throwing money in a 529 plan or feel like they need to start putting money in a 529 plan. Because like we were just talking about, life has just gotten so much more expensive. You are juggling, you know, careers and um there there are a lot of um there are a lot of hands in the pot, you know, needing need that that and and so being able to put money aside, um, yeah, obviously savings is still important, but locking that money away in a 529 plan where it can only be used for education purposes, like maybe that's not the best place to be saved.

SPEAKER_00: 25:21

And as I say, well, why does it matter? Like just to clarify people, there's a you could if you put money in a 529, it's tax advantaged if you use for eligible education expenses. But there's a penalty if you used it for non-education expenses. And so like it you could access it, but you're gonna subject yourself to a penalty. But what you're saying is like it's okay, like stay flexible, like a brokerage account. You can still invest the money, but having like like my kid, she's not going to college. If I had a bunch of money in 529, yeah, it's a natural impulse. It feels really responsible. Actually, I mean, I don't want to discourage people from saving for college because most people then will just kick it down the road and be like, wow, my kid's 14. I haven't saved anything for college yet. But it doesn't have to be in one of these tax advantage accounts with restriction. It's again overarching theme here is optionality, stay flexible. The brokerage account is a perfectly fine place for that money, at least to start out until you have a little bit more clarity.

SPEAKER_01: 26:12

Yeah. And I also think there's a little bit of like put put your own mask on before before the person next to you. And and, you know, you uh how do you weigh saving for college against saving for your own retirement, you know, and and other important things. And and so I, you know, I would caution against prioritizing college expenses or college savings over retirement savings because there are a lot of different ways to pay for college, you know, whether it's through um, you know, grants or or scholarships or you know, the loans, you can't get back those lost years of retirement savings if if you're not if you're not regularly contributing.

SPEAKER_00: 26:56

And I think the what I would just tell people is like if you're going to prioritize education, just understand that's likely going to delay retirement. And if that's a trade-off you're willing to make, okay. Make sure you're being intentional about that trade-off. Because yeah, there's a lot of different ways to pay for college. You don't have to pay for 100%. And I think certain people are blessed to be able to fully fund retirement and education and not have to worry about it. That is a small portion of the population. For your mass American right now, be able to retire at 60 with full income replacement and send two kids to college is super, super hard to do. So there's going to have to be trade-offs there. Um I I you've helped change my mind on that a little bit of like, yeah, make sure take care, like make sure you're at least aware of the trade-off. That's I think the biggest thing here. Um that's again where that brokerage account comes into play because that could be retirement if your kid doesn't go to college.

SPEAKER_01: 27:51

Yeah, you can it can work both ways. That money's flexible. Um and or or you know, prioritize saving in those Roth accounts, because those, you know, like likewise can be used for multiple purposes, including education. Um and by the way, like if you've got money in a retirement account like that, it's not going to count against you on the the FASF when you're applying for student aid, stuff like that. Whereas if you had that money sitting in a brokerage account, you know, that would count against your your um your eligibility for for financial aid. And so, you know, there's there's there's a lot of benefits to still prioritizing retirement or savings in a in a like a Roth account, where of course you've got the tax benefit of not paying tax on the growth, but you've also got some flexibility in that those funds could be a withdrawal for for education um down the road.

SPEAKER_00: 28:39

So to summarize everything we've talked about, starting with the most obvious, kids are really expensive, your expenses are gonna increase. If you don't have kids yet, imagine at least a good chunk of your income going like just try to start thinking about that. So expenses are gonna increase, you're gonna need to increase your liquidity. Probably gonna want to get insurance, which is gonna increase your expenses more. Stay flexible, don't dive right into a 529, bite the bullet and go get your estate planning documents drafted. Um what am I missing?

SPEAKER_01: 29:10

Yeah, I mean, I think the last area to think about, and and this is not one that you maybe have a whole lot of control over, is the what changes on the tax side. I mean, there are some there are some benefits. You know, some so there's some help on the on the tax side, uh, some relief when when you have kids um from from things like uh um getting a getting a larger um child tax credit or or a tax credit for child care expenses, um or or help uh relief on on tuition um expenses that comes back to you from from tax credits. And so um you know, it it's not it's not like there's a whole lot you can actually do there besides making sure that you are actually taking advantage of those benefits that are available to you. Um but but that's that's an important piece of the puzzle as well, I'd say.

SPEAKER_00: 30:04

Yeah, I totally forgot about that. My bad.

SPEAKER_01: 30:07

No worries.

SPEAKER_00: 30:09

Um cool. Um this is good. Yeah, kids are a challenge. Uh to those of you with them out there, good luck. Do the best you can. And uh they're they're a blessing at the end of the day. And so uh like this I may we've kind of jokingly been, you know, hem hawing over oh kids are so expensive, they're totally worth it.

SPEAKER_01: 30:36

Yeah, yeah. And I I can't think I mean, I can't think of anything better to do with my money than support my kids. What are you what are you using it for? Um so that comes back to the whole idea of like what's your purpose uh and aligning your money with that purpose. You know, it's not just about maximizing, it's about, you know, what are the things you actually care about? What what gives you meaning and joy and stuff? That said, I think uh an interesting topic for future podcasts would be, you know, how does how does not having children impact your your financial plan? Um because I think I think especially later in life, um, yeah, there there are some differences with how how I we do planning for for clients that don't have children.

SPEAKER_00: 31:21

And uh Yeah, we really even today we just talked to like that's a hundred percent true, but we left out how planning for children in retirement is different too. Like there's there's so like yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, a lot, a lot, a lot that could be talked about there. Um good stuff. Thank you for your wisdom. You fathered with older children than I. Good to learn from you. So um yeah, man, I appreciate it. Likewise. See you next time. See you next time.