Speaker 1: 1:12

Welcome back to the Make the Most of your Money podcast. As always, Colin Page and Taylor Stewart here. Colin, how are you?

Speaker 2: 1:18

Good Taylor, how are you?

Speaker 1: 1:19

Lovely, lovely. You and I were talking yesterday I don't know how we got on this topic, but it was about a blog article you wrote. I think you called it, was it? The three retirement tax landmines? And we both thought this could be a really good episode topic of conversation. So, just off the top, what do you consider to be the three retirement tax landmines?

Speaker 2: 1:45

Yeah, just like by way of introduction. I mean most folks have spent kind of their whole working life with not much control over their tax bill, their whole working life with not much control over their tax bill. I mean, if you were a W-2 employee maybe you could defer a little bit into a retirement account and there were maybe some adjustments around the edge for deductions and charitable giving and things like that. But that passive approach to tax planning really changes in retirement and especially in the mid to later years of retirement. And it's really because of these three landmines that I talked about in the article. But in short, the three are required minimum distributions or RMDs, the widow's penalty and beneficiary taxes. So just to like expand briefly on what those are Acquired. Minimum distributions they're the manual or mandatory withdrawals that a retiree has to take out, you know, once you hit a certain age. Right now the age is 73.

Speaker 1: 2:58

Withdrawals from tax-deferred retirement accounts is what you're talking about, Right?

Speaker 2: 3:00

yeah, tax-deferred retirement accounts. You have to take them out every year, starting in the year you turn 73. Every year from then until you pass, and the amount you're required to take out ramps up each year, or the percentage of the account you have to withdraw, and so you've got to pay tax on that those money you put in, whether you want to or not.

Speaker 2: 3:24

Whether you want to or not, whether you need that distribution or don't, and so not having a plan for required minimum distributions or how to manage those to make sure that you're not having more income recognized than you need to. It is one of the key deficiencies I see in a lot of retirees' plans, and the widow's penalty is a quick way of saying what happens to your tax bracket. When you go from being married filing jointly to single because of the death of a spouse, the tax brackets get much more compressed, and so you may have been in a in one of the middle tax brackets as a married person, but you're now in one of the higher tax brackets as an individual and and you still have those RMDs, then maybe they just got bigger, because now you're taking them for your spouse as well.

Speaker 2: 4:25

And then the last one is beneficiary taxes. So this is not necessarily taxes you will pay, but it's the taxes that your heirs will pay on accounts that they inherit after you're passing.

Speaker 1: 4:38

Well, I mean, actually you could also pay it, like if you're a retiree, you may be receiving money and also passing it on too. So the beneficiary tax thing I think can apply both on both sides, like for money that you might receive and then you got to think about it for money you're going to pass on as well. So I think we should look at the. That's a really good overview. I think we should look at the. That's a really good overview. I think we should talk about each a little more in depth. But what I want to talk about the word landmine like. What makes them a landmine to you? Is it because like? Is it that they're like not immediately obvious, and that there's some very like? Yeah, just what? Why are they a landmine?

Speaker 2: 5:10

Yeah, I mean I would say it's just, it's not on the radar of most people. Um, certainly not before retirement age. And and then even in those early retirement years you're generally not thinking RMDs are still way in the future, that you don't have to think about that till your seventies. Um widow's penalty, you're not thinking about losing a spouse, you know so. They're landmines in the sense that they're hidden.

Speaker 1: 5:34

And I think also the level of control too, because, like, rmds are going to be tied to the value of the account and that's, depending on what you're invested in, not entirely in your control. And the widow's penalty you don't when when a spouse dies, is not exactly in your control either. And same with beneficiary of like, if you're receiving money, when you receive money, is not totally in your control too. So that's like why I might consider them to be landmines is just that they can blow up and be expensive and you don't really know where you're going to step on them. It's similar to, like, if we're going to use the landmine analogy, like, you know they're out there, you're going to come across them, but you're not sure when and how big it will be. So, yeah, cool, that's a good example. Okay, should we just talk through each one a little bit more in depth?

Speaker 1: 6:14

and see if anything else comes up. Let's start with RMDs. Just to be clear, this is a term that I realize us advisors, we throw it around all the time and then half the time, clients are like no, what is that? It's very simple. So for tax-deferred accounts. So not like a brokerage account, not even a tax-free account like a Roth IRA or Roth 401k, but for, like the 401ks and traditional IRAs where you got a deduction going when you contributed to it. It's not totally a deduction, but like you didn't pay tax when the money came in. You haven't paid tax the whole time.

Speaker 1: 6:45

Eventually, you have to start taking money out of those accounts. You just have to, and those are the required minimum distributions. And so what this means is you can take money out earlier. You know, like 59 and a half is when you can start taking money out, but the rules keep changing depending on when you were born. It was like 70 and a half. Now what is it like? 73 for some people?

Speaker 1: 7:05

You have to start taking money out of these accounts and it will be taxable. You can't really get around that, really. I mean, yeah, maybe some charitable stuff you can do, but like it's going to be taxable income. And then, yeah, just from the last mechanical thing, the amount that you have to take out is essentially tied to your life expectancy, and so I think the tables from the IRS will show like a year, like 26 and a half. So you would take, like your beginning balance divided by 26 and a half, and the next year might be 25 and a half. But you could also invert that and think of it as a percentage.

Speaker 1: 7:37

But, yeah, the amount of money you have to take out increases the older you get. So that's just the mechanics. Again. You got a tax deduction or you didn't pay tax on it this whole time. Eventually you're going to be forced to take the money out, and pay tax Doesn't mean you have to spend it. You can save it somewhere else, but you've got to pay the taxes, to pay the taxes. And so that's why I was saying the amount that the RMD how much the RMD is, it's a percentage of an account balance that, depending on what you're invested in, could float all over the place Said a lot there. What would you add to that?

Speaker 2: 8:06

Yeah, I mean, one way I like to frame it is that these pre-tax accounts, the government is kind of like your partner in these accounts. They've got a lien on a portion of that account and that is the tax that they allowed you to defer when you first put money in. And that business partner eventually wants to get their money out, and so these RMDs are a way of forcing you to start selling down the account so that the government can get its portion of it. And so, yeah, the exact mechanics of it yeah, right now it's 73 that you have to start taking it out. That's going to be moving up to age 75 in a few years. So if you're younger now it you know it's probably going to be 75 for you unless that changes.

Speaker 2: 9:00

Um, but yeah, I mean the, the RMDs. They start out relatively, um, easy in the sense that that first year I think it's 26 and a half is the factor. So you take whatever the account balance was on December 31st of the year that you turn 73, and you divide that by 26.5. So it works out to like a little under 4% is what you have to take out of the account. But then each year that divisor goes down meaning. So, like you said, 26. Half the first year, it's going to be 25 and a half the next year, and then 24 and a half or or thereabouts. Um, and, and so you're having to take out a larger and larger percentage of the account, and maybe the account's grown since, since, then too so so it could be.

Speaker 2: 9:51

You know you have both of those things working against you, and so it's usually not until you're like late. You know, mid 80s, that these RMDs can get really big and push you into, you know, a much higher tax bracket than you ever were in before.

Speaker 1: 10:11

So what can you do about this?

Speaker 2: 10:14

So what can you do about this? Yeah, I mean the answer to all of these is going to be somewhat related. You know, one of the biggest strategies I recommend for folks is planning out Roth conversions and we've talked about those on this podcast before. Converting those pre-tax assets into Roth assets over time can really reduce the amount of money that's going to be subject to those future RMDs. So the idea there is to kind of smooth out your income, start recognizing some of those taxes in years, maybe when your income is down, like after you've retired, before you've taken Social Security, or if you have a gap in your income. Doing some Roth conversions those years can really help knock it down.

Speaker 1: 11:08

I want to say for some people there's not much you can do. If you work till 70 or 75, there may not be a great opportunity for some of this, but for this, for the person who does let's say, retires at 65 and has a choice of do I start social security, do I draw from my assets, where do I draw from my assets? That's where there's a golden opportunity because it can see it Like, if you have a gap between all of this, like between employment, income and these other things, to recognize to start to take some of that money and more than like a lot, possibly out of your tax deferred accounts, pay the tax on it now. Well, hopefully you're at a lower tax rate and then when the RMDs kick in, there's a smaller amount that's going to be have to be withdrawn. Is that that's what you're saying, right?

Speaker 2: 11:51

Yeah, for sure. I mean the golden time to do that is in between, like retirement and when you take Social Security. But I've seen, you know, even with folks that didn't do it until their 70s, when you crunch the numbers, there can still be a major benefit to doing some amount of wrong so. Ok, even if it pushes you into a higher tax bracket.

Speaker 1: 12:13

Yeah. So this is going to kind of tie into our episode last week or last time about financial projections, crunching the numbers. What numbers are you crunching? What are the variables that swing it? Because ultimately, tax planning is you just want to pay the tax at the lowest rate possible. So you're going to do the Roth conversion with the idea that I'll be at a lower tax bracket now than I would be later.

Speaker 2: 12:33

Yeah, that's the gist of the decision is am I going to be in a lower tax bracket while I'm doing this Roth conversion than I? Because if they're not going to continue to grow, then maybe those RMDs won't be as punishing later on. So the growth rate of the assets matters, what you anticipate future tax rates to be really matters. We're sitting here in 2025 and the Trump tax cuts are about to expire, but there's a bill that would extend them indefinitely.

Speaker 2: 13:30

So you have to have some anticipation or some input for what you think the future tax rate is going to be.

Speaker 1: 13:37

So I think this is me. You're going to be horribly wrong with your projection there about what your growth rate is and tax rate. Those are like two of the things you're just going to be wrong. But what I do think is valuable is being aware of this and being opportunistic. And I know something that you did a lot of with clients back in April of 25, when the market was kind of freaking out.

Speaker 1: 13:56

You did a lot of conversions, roth conversions, at that time and I think that's like there can be this desire to like I'm going to plan out all my Roth conversions and my RMDs for 15, 20 years. You're just you cannot like this is one of the most inaccurate projections you're going to make of what your RMDs will be. The rules are changing all the time, tax rates are changing all the time, account values are changing all the time. But being aware of it and being opportunistic where you see, oh, the market went down 15%, boom, great time to do it that I'm a huge fan of and that's where I was like that was awesome what you did for people back then.

Speaker 2: 14:26

Yeah, and I think there is software that is helpful in figuring out kind of what is the right tax bracket to target for.

Speaker 2: 14:34

Roth conversions or target an IRMA bracket, that's the Medicare. Sometimes targeting one of those can produce a slightly better result. In light of what we said in our last episode about financial modeling, it can give you a very specific answer. It's like oh well, converting to the top of the 35% bracket is going to be the best one for you, but if you really look at the numbers behind it, you get almost the same benefit converting to the top of the 24% bracket, and so there is a balancing act and you take the results of those kind of calculators. I think this is a great year by year.

Speaker 1: 15:14

Year by year thing is really, at the end of the day, Like it's you can map it out and have a general idea and like be aware of it, but really it's a year by year, just the value of the situation. Year by year it's not a big deal, Okay. So RMDs we understand what they are, why they can be a tax land. Uh, try to. Really the biggest planning item you can do or thing that you can control is getting some of that money out of tax deferred accounts before the RMD start, Um, but after a certain point it's kind of that's really what it is. You just try to adjust each year and at some point it's going to be what it's going to be. You're gonna have to pay tax on it at some point.

Speaker 2: 15:48

Yeah, Well, the the other one, we haven't touched on the other.

Speaker 1: 15:57

Um strategy is is if you are, you know charitably inclined qcds.

Speaker 2: 15:58

Yeah, using using qcds. I think we talked about that in in our what are qcds?

Speaker 2: 16:03

yeah, we talked about that in our episode with uh, with mike qcds are qualified charitable distributions. Once you are 70 and a half age 70 and a half you can donate up to $100,000 annually from your IRA to a qualified charity and that donation counts against your RMD. Against your RMD. So say you had a required minimum distribution that was going to require you to take out $50,000 from your account and you didn't really need that income. You've got enough other sources of income that you're living on. You do give to charity or you want to give to charity. You could earmark that RMD for a charity by making a qualified charitable distribution.

Speaker 2: 16:55

And so for folks that are donating or donating significant amounts. That's a great way to solve that RMD issue and why it's so important to understand the client's overall goals here.

Speaker 1: 17:09

Yeah, totally, that was great Okay.

Speaker 2: 17:16

In that vein. The other point I would make is if you plan to leave money to charity and when you pass, then you're not going to pay any tax on that account and your heirs won't pay any taxes on that account. So if you're leaving that account directly to a charity, then maybe the benefit of Roth conversions or something like that won't be there as great.

Speaker 1: 17:43

That's very interesting. Yeah, if you're fortunate enough to find yourself in that position where you can be leaving all that Widow's penalty number two, the second one. Relieving all that Widows penalty number two, the second one.

Speaker 2: 17:53

Yeah, so it's basically just the difference in the tax brackets for a married filing jointly, you know, couple and a single taxpayer. The tax brackets get much smaller when you are filing as an individual rather than as part of a married married couple and so and just good.

Speaker 1: 18:19

Just to clarify what. Just sorry, I'm gonna cut you out there a little lag. Just to clarify what that means. Like like let's say that, and these are made up tax brackets like the first fifty thousand dollars for a single person is taxed, or the first twenty five thousand for a single person is taxed at ten percent and the next twenty five is taxed, or the first $25,000 for a single person is taxed at 10% and then the next 25 is taxed at 15% For a married person. Let's say it's double that the first $50,000 is taxed at 10% and the next $50,000 is taxed at 20%. So making more money, you're going to pay less tax if you're married there. But if you take the same dollar amounts and then put them into the single tax brackets, you're just going to pay more because those brackets are squeezed like you said.

Speaker 2: 18:56

Yeah, exactly right and like if the spouse inherited the retirement accounts. They will then have to take RMDs either based on their own age or their spouse's age.

Speaker 1: 19:12

See, that's what's different than when you're working. Because when you're working you're like well, I mean, if one spouse passes away, then their income goes away and it kind of roughly works out-ish. You know, like if you have two spouses making the same, but in a retirement RMD situation, like if you're having to withdraw $100,000 a year from a retirement account, that's not going away when you retire. So that's why this is different than the working years, because the working years more or less works itself out in a lot of cases. But for retirement, yeah, now it's like oh, I have the same income, but just way squeezed tighter tax bracket. Yeah, that's a big one.

Speaker 2: 19:44

Yeah, I mean, in the same strategies we already touched on, to kind of smooth out the impact of RMDs, work with the widow's penalty as well. I mean getting money out of those pre-tax accounts one way or another, you know, at a lower rate now, while you're married, filing jointly, than you would otherwise be in if your spouse were to pass away.

Speaker 1: 20:08

And can we just clarify it's like there's not actually a thing called the widow's penalty, like it's not, like you know, an early withdrawal penalty.

Speaker 1: 20:13

I just want it's like there's not actually a thing called the widow's penalty, like it's not like an early withdrawal penalty. I just want to clarify because, like you just hear that Like holy, screw these people, they're trying to penalize widows. It's just, it's a term coined by advisors to call it what it is. Like hey, there's kind of a penalty if you're a widow because of this, but it's not a nefarious thing.

Speaker 2: 20:36

It's just the difference between single and married filing jointly tax brackets that creates this effective penalty. Yeah, that's right. Same with the term death tax was thrown around a lot, I think that's more accurate.

Speaker 1: 20:45

That's really more accurate. There's a little more accuracy there, but not for most people.

Speaker 2: 20:54

Yeah, that's true, that's true. That kind of brings us to the third landmine, um, which is you know what taxes are gonna be due when you pass away, or when both you and your spouse pass away?

Speaker 1: 21:04

can we think about this from the other direction, like for the person that's alive receiving the money first?

Speaker 2: 21:09

sure yeah, because that may be because you're gonna have to situation early in retirement, like and like and also passed away yeah and like.

Speaker 1: 21:14

It's like not everybody thinks this way, but a little more relevant, there could be a lot of time. I don't really care what happens once I'm gone, but like I want, like they're both similar but like. But I've dealt with this one personally where retired person they've got their plan and then they're inherit like a million dollars and it's like oh, this kind of screwed you from a tax perspective all of a sudden, because now you've got to recognize this income. Yeah, talk through, like what happens on that from what you're calling beneficiary taxes?

Speaker 2: 21:41

Yeah, I mean, first of all, it's a high-quality problem to have if you've got this great plan already and then you inherit a pre-tax account from a relative. No one's losing sleep over that. But basically, when you inherit a retirement account, a pre-tax retirement account, there are certain rules over how quickly you must distribute that money and therefore pay taxes on it. And you pay tax on it at whatever your marginal tax bracket industry.

Speaker 1: 22:17

It's treated as some taxable income for you.

Speaker 2: 22:18

Yeah, yeah. So generally the rule is that if you, if you are not a spouse of the person that passed away and you're named as a beneficiary, generally the rule is you have 10 years to distribute that income or distribute that entire balance, and you have to. You have to spend down the account within 10 years.

Speaker 1: 22:41

And that rule has changed. Um, so this is another one to stay abreast of, because that's the rule today, for now, because you got 10 years to take that money out.

Speaker 2: 22:51

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that was part of the SECURE Act 2019. And it had been awaiting guidance from the IRS on what this rule actually means and how. You know, okay, we've got 10 years to distribute already, of an age where they were required to take distributions. Then the person who inherited the account is required to take distributions from it of at least that amount and still make sure that the full account is taken out in 10 years.

Speaker 1: 23:32

So if somebody's already taking an RMD and you inherit that account, you have to continue to take at least what their RMD would have been the deceased person, but then make sure it's gone in 10 years, so it's like at least, but you're going to need to take more than that, but that's a really good distinction there.

Speaker 2: 23:50

Yeah, and usually you do want to take more than that, because otherwise you're going to have this big tax hit in that 10th year. If you wait, if you just take the smallest amount possible each of those years, then in year 10, you're going to have to take a big chunk, and that probably won't be the most efficient way to do it.

Speaker 1: 24:08

But that presents another planning opportunity there too, of can you could take it all in the first year, sure, so, like there is, you can lump sum this Like it could be one giant distribution, nine small ones and one big one or some any combination in between there, and so it's another thing to. It's the same type of thing. Okay, like, now that you have this information, let's look at what your expected income is and maybe it does make sense. And this is where, if you're 80 years old and already Taking your own RMDs, there's probably not a ton you can do. But if you happen to receive this inheritance in between that retiring and starting things, there can be more opportunities there. That's interesting, yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:53

Yeah, important to note that this is different than estate taxes.

Speaker 1: 24:57

Yes, correct, this is income taxes.

Speaker 2: 24:59

This is income taxes.

Speaker 1: 25:01

Yes, correct.

Speaker 2: 25:01

This is income taxes. This is income taxes. You know the estate taxes are. You know, right now, they're only a concern really for the wealthiest families because of the high, you know, current exemption rate. Some states have lower exemption rates and so you have to pay attention to that too, but right now, you know, the estate tax exemption for an individual is close to $13 million.

Speaker 1: 25:24

Okay, so if you inherit an account, but then to finish the thought on that, for if you inherit an account and somebody, like you said, if somebody is already taking RMDs passes on an account, you have to continue those RMDs. But if somebody is let's say they're 50 years old and you inherit a 401k, what are the rules?

Speaker 2: 25:41

if somebody's let's say they're 50 years old and you inherit a 401k, what are the rules Then? It's just you have until that 10th year to distribute everything. You're not required to take anything out in years one through nine, but everything has to be gone in 10 years. So generally that's not going to be the best result.

Speaker 1: 25:59

And that can be tricky too. If you are 50 and working possibly in higher income earning years as well, then all of a sudden it's a nice problem to have, but that can really jump the tax bracket that you're in, and I think that could be a nice segue into the planning to pass on money. So let's talk about that now. Let's say that you have a tax-deferred retirement account. Thinking through from your own, I guess there's a lot of ways we could take this, but being yeah, so, but yeah, how would you like to frame that? Because there's just so many options you could talk about there. Of like, if you're going to pass on an account what you need to think about, yeah, what would you? What do you want to go with that? Pass on an account what you?

Speaker 2: 26:41

need to think about yeah, what would you, what do you want to go with that? Generally, folks want to leave, you know the, you know, the most they can to their heirs, to their children or their grandchildren. And so you have kind of have to think about what is going to be taken out in taxes from from what the children or the grandchildren will ultimately get. And so that's why you know, yes, you're right, like the, you won't be there, you won't be paying the taxes. But if your goal is to, you know, pass on the most you can, you know, or do it as efficiently as possible, then you do want to take it into consideration. And so one of the things that, like the Roth conversion analysis I do for folks, one of the things it doesn't really show is what is the impact on the next generation?

Speaker 2: 27:36

So, say, you inherit a Roth account instead of a pre-tax account. So this is money that's already, the tax has already been paid, it's in a Roth account, it can grow tax-free. That beneficiary has the same 10-year period to distribute it, but they won't be taxed when they make that distribution. And so if I had my druthers, I would rather inherit a Roth account than a pre-tax account because I'm not going to pay tax on it one and I can leave it invested for that full 10 years before I'm required to distribute the balance of it and I won't pay any tax on it. So it's like gifting a supercharged investment account.

Speaker 2: 28:31

And so, yeah, that tends to be the best. If you do want to leave an inheritance, that's the best kind of inheritance you could leave.

Speaker 1: 28:39

And this is maybe where I can't remember if we've talked about this or not but taxable accounts have a slightly different treatment when you pass them on as well to where it's called step up in basis, where essentially, if you bought a stock for 100 and it's now worth 200, if you sold it while you're alive, there's a gain that you would have to pay taxes on. But if you pass it on, the person receiving it gets that step up in basis and, in theory, wouldn't have to pay income taxes if they sold it right away. I think an example that I've come across quite a bit and dealt with is like, let's say, a parent's 85. They don't have a lot of other income and they're taking like. You have the choice between should I draw on my retirement accounts above the RMD amount or sell some taxable accounts? In situations where the children or whoever's going to be the beneficiary of those accounts are 45, 50 years old, working in a really high tax bracket, everything out of that tax deferred account is going to be taxed. So for the person alive it may be in the 24% tax bracket, or 22% or 12% maybe, but for the person receiving it it may be the 37% tax bracket.

Speaker 1: 29:46

In that case for the parent, the person whose account it is take the money out of the tax-deferred account because you're paying that tax at a lower rate. When you pass it on, you're passing on those assets. That would either step up in basis or be tax-free. If it's a tax-free account, there's a lot of terms that are getting. I'm throwing a lot of jargon in there, but does that generally make sense what I'm saying?

Speaker 2: 30:08

Yeah, absolutely so. In the hierarchy of things that are the most tax-efficient bequests, a Roth account is going to be the highest benefit from a tax perspective. The next highest thing to receive is an ordinary taxable brokerage account, because even if you had large unrealized gains that you would have had to pay tax on if you had sold them, like you said, there's this step up in basis that occurs when at at death, and so those, all of those securities get marked, their cost basis gets moved up to whatever the current market value is, and so your heirs could sell those immediately and there would be no tax on on any of those gains. And so that's that's probably the second best way to pass on assets, and then the kind of the worst way, if we can say that is a pre-tax account, where the beneficiaries would have to pay tax on it.

Speaker 1: 31:14

Yeah, I think also, that example I was just talking about was definitely much later in life where it comes into play. I think for most people they have to look out for, like, if you're 65 or 70, you got to look out for what's going to be the most sufficient for yourself to generate the income. But then if you do reach a point where, like okay, end of life is coming, where should I be pulling from now? That's when I think factoring in the beneficiary's tax situation is something you totally consider. Something you totally consider because I mean, that example I was talking about was literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes were being saved by pulling from certain accounts rather than others in that period.

Speaker 1: 31:46

Um, so, yeah, it's a good thing to be aware of. It's like I think that that's the takeaway from all of this is like being aware of the mechanics. Um, you can there's a limitation in projecting this out 20, 25 years but if you're aware of them and like just take it on a-by-year basis, you can really save a lot of money just being aware and making the best decisions in each year.

Speaker 2: 32:08

Yeah, absolutely yeah. I don't think I have anything else to add, but I think it's definitely a situation where it helps to have a financial advisor who's up on the current tax regime and the changes that may be afoot to help you structure a plan. It's just like we've been saying it's a lot to keep track of and the landscape is constantly shifting. Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, great article. We can link it in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 32:39

It's a quick one, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, great article. We can link it in the show notes. It's a quick one, colin's a great writer and, yeah, you even have stuff we won't have time for now. But you talk about what can be done to avoid the retirement tax landmines and we talked about them Income smoothing, roth conversions, qcds yeah, very good, great article and good topic, good stuff.

Speaker 2: 33:00

Thanks for bringing it up.

Speaker 1: 33:02

Of course man All right, Well, anything else.

Speaker 2: 33:05

No, have a great week.

Speaker 1: 33:08

You too. See you next time.

Speaker 2: 33:10

See you next time.